Vaccine-wary parents spark public health worry

My only question to Roxy-439211: Does this mean that if I read enough books in my spare time that I can enter the flight deck of a commercial airliner loaded with 200 people and safely fly the passengers to their destination? Please let the people that have devoted their lives to studying the science of medicine along with the decades of research make the determination whether or not children should be vaccinated.

I have done research also. Oh and by the way it was a "mother" doing research that developed Lorenzo's Oil.

Roxy-I seriously doubt you have done any "research". A much overused and misunderstood term. Do you have a degree in Public Health, Medicine, or Epidemiology. Unlikely. The information you have likely exposed yourself is probably biased towards your previously formed opinions, so you simply read material that supported your suppositions. This both reductionistic reasoning and sampling error.
I beg you to leave the medicine to the experts. The efficacy and benefits of vaccination are well proven and documented. Much of the quality of life and good health you may have is due to these benefits. Look at both sides, be informed. And for God's sake get your children vaccinated. I don't want my family and friends to be injured because of your poor, uninformed choices.

Thank you, ChicagoDad, for making such a valid point. To all the self-righteous mothers out there who think that they know what's best for the health of their children: please don't be so naive as to believe that your personal "research" can possibly result in as well-informed a decision as that of a medical health professional. The selfishness of Margulis (quoted in the article as saying that her choices were only affecting her own children) and others with similar viewpoints is simply astonishing. Please realize that not only are you endangering your own children, but others as well. Such a decision is simply unconscionable. The advances of modern medicine have resulted in the near eradication of dangerous diseases that once killed large numbers of people. It would be wise to be grateful for the opportunity to live in such an age and to take advantage of the benefits--especially on the clear advice of professionals. To wish for one's child to "have the chance to contract measles" (Margulis, again) smacks of shocking stupidity. You are not helping your children by the denying them the chance to live a disease-free life.

What does your research tell you? Does your research tell you that the diseases that these vaccinations "allegedly" prevent are fictitious? If they are not fictitious, then can your research provide an alternate means to avoid contracting these illnesses? If so, I am impressed. No reason for medical school or doctors (good luck on that one if you ever need to have major surgery).

ROXY your nuts, these vaccines have proven to work for years, yes there are some that develop a reaction but for the 99% that have vaccines they have no reaction.

This is child neglect in my book, any parent that doesn't have there child vaccinated are selfish and really don't care about anyone.

To me the problem at the root of this is that many doctors lie, the press lies constantly about: the real risks. Yes, it is stupid to say there aren't any benefits , and the benefits do outweigh the risks. BUT telling intelligent people that there is no reason to worry when there is a lot of strong evidence that serious problems do occur and more than doctors (in general) and the press (all) lead us to believe. I made one call to the FDA about the MMR shot. A doctor told me it can't cause reactions. The man at the FDA sent me a list of over 3000 people who were reported (most probably are not reported because doctors refuse to make the correlation) to have serious side effects. Make that 3001 because I essentially (with no history my entire life) got rheumatoid arthritis in 48 hours. By being blockheaded and refusing to admit how serious problems can be, Vaccine advocates are creating the fight that they have on their hands. Time for some honesty.

Yea, research reading crackpot web pages.

ChicagoDad.... you do make an excellent point!

and by your way of thinking, your kids should be taken away. Did you spend years of researching on nutrition and get a degree? Then you should not be able to make the decision of what your children eat. Only a nutritionist should be allowed to feed your kids!

Did you spend years researching and getting a degree in first aid or health classes? Than I hope you take your child to a doctor each and every time they get a scrape on the knee, cause your not qualified to put a band-aid on or to decide when they should have an aspirin.

Have you spent years studying and researching religion and philosophy and get a degree in each? Then you are not capable of teaching your child any of your values, religious beliefs or ideas. Hand them over to your closest religious organization, they are the only ones who can tell your child what they should know. Your unqualified!

Did you spend years in psychology, sociology, behavioral and mental health classes and get degrees in each? Then you should not be able to make any decisions regarding your child. You need to hand over your children to a professional who can safely raise them as you are, by your own words, GROSSLY inadequate as a parent.

Nice try disreptedBeliefs...but when YOU feed YOUR kids, treat YOUR kids for a scrape or cut did YOU yourself think of the remedy or magically conceive that fruits and vegetables are better than fast food? No...You know what to do because an "educated professional/doctor" has provided that information throughout your lifetime.

I couldn't agree with you more. How does a child who is not vaccinated, put any risk to those who are. If the vaccinations really work, then those children should not be at any risk. When they want to put 5-7 shots into a small child or baby at one time, how can they say this is not dangerous. My daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's disease at a young age, had ear infections, etc., right after getting her MMR shot at about 2 years old. She also ended up with a learning disability. She is 24 now and doing well, but still has trouble with her stomach and has severe acid reflux, but when I look back in her baby book all her problems started after she received her MMR shot at about 2. She is 24 now, and doing pretty good, but she has suffered a lot (and I feel it had to have had something to do with it). My son had irritable bowel syndrome, strept throat, and a learning disability too. Again, after receiving his MMR shot at around 2. He is 23 now, and doing good, but still suffers from stomach problems. I also had a severe reaction to the DPT at 2. I stopped breathing and went into a seizure. My mother did not give that shot again. My cousin's child had her 2nd DPT shot at about 9 months old and right after had a extreme high fever and a horrible seizure and never recovered. she is 30 now, wears diapers, and can't talk or relate to anyone. She is a complete invalid. My cousin even won a lawsuit wherein they proved it was the Pertusis vaccine that caused this, but no money in the world is ever going to bring her daughter back. My grandson is one year old, and has only had one shot, and that was when he was born and they gave it to my grandson without my daughter even knowing what they were doing. He is so alert and smart and way above many one year olds. My great nephew is the same, and has not received his shots and he is about 8 months old. These children look you in the eye and they are so alert and smart. A lot of the babies I've seen, after they get their shots, can't focus, they seem slower and they scream constantly. I have a cousin whose baby was alert and she got him his shots, and now he seems like he is in his own little world. He is older than my great nephew and he isn't even trying to do things he is doing. He seems slow and tired and is very fussy all the time. You can't tell me these are all coincidences. These people who think parents who don't vaccinate are monsters or something, I'd like to see them be around my cousin's child for even two minutes, and I think they'd change their mind. A day doesn't go by that my cousin doesn't wish she had not gone into that doctor that day for her baby's DPT shot. She lives with this on a daily basis and has so much guilt. I don't think anyone has a right to judge - quite frankly I judge them. The people who make the decision not to vaccinate usually have done a great deal of research - they dont just do it on a whim. The people who do vaccinate, usually only listen to the doctors and what they have been brainwashed with. Believe me, doctors are wrong a lot of the time. My daughter almost died twice because of doctor's mistakes. We aren't asking to quit the vaccines all together, just make them safer, and not so many at one time. Although, after reading and seeing the things that I have, and what I went through myself with my own children, I doubt I would give my child any vaccinations. It is a very difficult decision to make when you have doctors and the public constantly scrutinizing you for making a decision you feel is the best for your child. Let them walk in these people's shoes whose child has had a severe reaction or autism from these shots, then I bet they'd change their minds. Not to mention the expense of raising a child like this. It happening to even one child is too much. They need to find safer ways to vaccinate. If you ask me, the only reason they give a child so many shots at one time is to save money. It is absolutely heartbreaking when you are a parent and you know you could have prevented it.

That's kind of silly. You are comparing apple pie to oranges. Medicine is a far more complex subject matter than nutrition with much more serious implications. Granted nutrition is really important, philosophy and religion are great subjects too...
But get real, different subject matters have much different standards of knowledgebility..publically available materials, practical application and scientific standards. You can't make an accurate comparision between medicine - specifically etimiology - and nutrition, psychology health, and any other random subject you want to tack on.

I think he's got a very valid point, I mean have you ever had to work with a cadaver? There's a reason why doctors have to get so many years of education compared to other disciplines. What do you think they are doing crossword puzzles and cherades?

funny

Really Disrepect? You don't think that certain areas of endeavor require more study than others? We don't really need doctors. You can do it yourself. And architects and engineers? Why, little old you can get on the Internet and in no time at all you can build a perfectly good high-rise apartment building or suspension bridge, better than the experts. Now won't the community feel all safe and snug. (By the way, interesting handle. You were hoping for a little repect? Helpful hint: click on the "Check Spelling" button.)

ChicagoDad.... actually no. Those accredited doctors told me that Milk was good. Then they said that milk was bad. Then said milk was good again.
Those same scientists told me that caffeine was horrible for me and then turned around and told me that, as a woman, coffee could significantly decrees my risks for cancer if I have FOUR cups or more a day.

Seems to me that those so called professionals of yours are pretty much talking out of their *ss and don't really know half the time!

So, no, I didn't learn all that through my doctors over the years. I learned by environment, by my own experiences, by research, through several other people's opinions and experiences and ALSO through doctors and I made my own opinons and decisions based on a number of factors. It's called learning! Try it some time. Do not blindly believe everything that someone tells you simply because they have an initial behind their name. After all, there has never been a drug approved by the FDA and given out by doctors who said it was safe that was later proven to be a serious health risk and possible deadly, right? Cause I could list off several right now.

You are all missing the POINT.

I don't have to have a degree to do research on a number of different opinions (All scientific) and to come to an informed decision. You can only do the best that you can as a parent.

Case in point: Your child has a very serious rash and a fever. You bring them to a doctor and the doctor tells you they have an ear infection. Now, you've never heard of a child having a rash with an ear infection, a fever maybe, but not a rash. Do you just listen to the doctor cause he has some initials behind his name?

Or do you take him to another doctor? Or do some research yourself to make sure that all the angles are being looked at and your child is getting the best care? I hope you are doing the latter, but judging by your comments.... you just go say "ok" and give your kid some ear drops and aspirin and call it a day! None of these people are saying they know better than the doctors.... they are saying that many of the doctors disagree and as a parent you can NEVER just rely solely on one perspective and view and that each and every parent should do their own research and decide whether or not they believe the risks are worth it for their child. That is not only their right.... it's their DUTY as a parent.

JC 439214

We'd actually believe your science education if you actually knew the correct phrase you're trying to cite.

Correlation does not equal causation. You're right, the fact that some kids that get vaccinated are autistic or suffer allegeries does not logically follow that the cause of autism and allergies are vaccines.

Try actually, you know, educating yourself on the risks of measles, mumps and other diseases before making your judgement. Because, God forbid one of your precious little snowflakes contracts mumps and becomes sterile...what would you do?

I agree with JC-439214. This article is ridiculously biased, written no doubt to incite fear in those too stupid to actually study this out for themselves and make informed decisions as parents. Intelligent parents make the BEST decision for their kids, not the decision that MSNBC tells them to.

JC-439214: One of my best friends from childhood (I'm 43 now) developed measels in 2nd grade. He lived around the corner from me and I was the one who took his schoolwork to him. As a result he's sterile.

Guess what. He's fine with it. Sure, he and his sweet vet wife Mary wish they could have kids, but like he says, "Hey, not everyone can be a parent. Stuff happens."

Oh, and before I forget? He had all of his shots...so the vaccines are not the 'magic bullet' the drug companies want you to believe them to be.

Did it ever occur to you JC that super bugs wouldn't be around if everyone got vaccines? Did you see the part in the story where the woman's son had whopping cough and three/four years later is just now stopping the medicine. Because of the creation of superbugs everyone should be getting vaccinated.

When I was in school (I am 39) they lined us up in the nurse's office and gave us the required shots.

Something no one has thought of is this -- we no longer get small pox vaccinations because it only exists in labs (per my ped). Maybe if everyone got vaccinations the vaccinations would eventually not be needed.

Study it out for yourselves? What, in your basement laboratory? Or on some crackpot webpage?

You read the article but do not understand it. Half the kids who got measles had the vaccine. THat does not tell the true story. Out of how many kisd that had the vaccine got sick compared to those that didn't? The fact you cite demonstrates that vaccination prevents disease even though vaccination is not 100% effective in everyone. It also shows that when the number of unvacinated kids is above a certain proportion of the population, then the kids who were vaccinated but where the vaccination didn't take are no longer protected by being surrounded by people with immunity.

The simple fact is that not vaccinating kids creates vectors for the spread of disease and that puts everyone in your community at risk.

THe article is right. As a society, we have forgotten how bad these illnesses are. If this misguided anti-vaccine attitude takes hold, we will return to third world health status where many children will be disabled or killed by these diseases. Many, many more kids than the number of kids percieved by paranoid parents getting autism.

JC-As you blather about ignorance you display an inordinate amount. Over Medication has not caused "super viruses". I believe you're referring to the media hype term "super bugs" which is a reference to bacteria. What is actually happening is increased resistance and mutations which can be a response to over use of antibiotics. This is the fault of poor, lazy medical practice and patient's who insist on antibiotics for upper respiratory infections (sinusitis, sore throats, etc) which are almost always caused by viruses. Viruses do not respond to antibiotics. This is not the fault of medical science but of medical practice and patient ignorance!
Additionally, the story does appear to state the facts well and presents both sides of the story without being overly biased to one side or the other. The concerns presented by the scientists and health officials are real and valid regardless of your opinion.

vancomycin its the same meaning dip$hit

I couldn't agree with you more. How does a child who is not vaccinated, put any risk to those who are. If the vaccinations really work, then those children should not be at any risk. When they want to put 5-7 shots into a small child or baby at one time, how can they say this is not dangerous. My daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's disease at a young age, had ear infections, etc., right after getting her MMR shot at about 2 years old. She also ended up with a learning disability. She is 24 now and doing well, but still has trouble with her stomach and has severe acid reflux, but when I look back in her baby book all her problems started after she received her MMR shot at about 2. She is 24 now, and doing pretty good, but she has suffered a lot (and I feel it had to have had something to do with it). My son had irritable bowel syndrome, strept throat, and a learning disability too. Again, after receiving his MMR shot at around 2. He is 23 now, and doing good, but still suffers from stomach problems. I also had a severe reaction to the DPT at 2. I stopped breathing and went into a seizure. My mother did not give that shot again. My cousin's child had her 2nd DPT shot at about 9 months old and right after had a extreme high fever and a horrible seizure and never recovered. she is 30 now, wears diapers, and can't talk or relate to anyone. She is a complete invalid. My cousin even won a lawsuit wherein they proved it was the Pertusis vaccine that caused this, but no money in the world is ever going to bring her daughter back. My grandson is one year old, and has only had one shot, and that was when he was born and they gave it to my grandson without my daughter even knowing what they were doing. He is so alert and smart and way above many one year olds. My great nephew is the same, and has not received his shots and he is about 8 months old. These children look you in the eye and they are so alert and smart. A lot of the babies I've seen, after they get their shots, can't focus, they seem slower and they scream constantly. I have a cousin whose baby was alert and she got him his shots, and now he seems like he is in his own little world. He is older than my great nephew and he isn't even trying to do things he is doing. He seems slow and tired and is very fussy all the time. You can't tell me these are all coincidences. These people who think parents who don't vaccinate are monsters or something, I'd like to see them be around my cousin's child for even two minutes, and I think they'd change their mind. A day doesn't go by that my cousin doesn't wish she had not gone into that doctor that day for her baby's DPT shot. She lives with this on a daily basis and has so much guilt. I don't think anyone has a right to judge - quite frankly I judge them. The people who make the decision not to vaccinate usually have done a great deal of research - they dont just do it on a whim. The people who do vaccinate, usually only listen to the doctors and what they have been brainwashed with. Believe me, doctors are wrong a lot of the time. My daughter almost died twice because of doctor's mistakes. We aren't asking to quit the vaccines all together, just make them safer, and not so many at one time. Although, after reading and seeing the things that I have, and what I went through myself with my own children, I doubt I would give my child any vaccinations. It is a very difficult decision to make when you have doctors and the public constantly scrutinizing you for making a decision you feel is the best for your child. Let them walk in these people's shoes whose child has had a severe reaction or autism from these shots, then I bet they'd change their minds. Not to mention the expense of raising a child like this. It happening to even one child is too much. They need to find safer ways to vaccinate. If you ask me, the only reason they give a child so many shots at one time is to save money. It is absolutely heartbreaking when you are a parent and you know you could have prevented it.

Lorent, apparently, you are the only one who has the only sources of non-crackpot information. Such and such doctors, you don't know/approve of (MD, Phd, ND, whateverD) have no credibility while other doctors that you heard/approve of(MD, Phd, ND, whateverD) are the only one with credibility.

Really, are you the only person in the world who isn't stupid in his/her own mind?

You know what they call the student who was last in his medical school class, right? DOCTOR

Polio vaccine also caused AIDS. We have a new and deadly disease that was cause out of panic and fear of a disease that was dying out when the vaccine came into the picture. Research! the information is out there.

Wow.. just Wow. "Polio vaccine also caused AIDS"? "Polio epidemic was caused by the vaccine"?

Complete morons above..

Roxy, I'm afraid you have it backwards...the polio vaccine was developed from a dead polio virus...a dead virus cannot 'cause' anything.

And AIDS, Texas Mom, was transmitted from monkey to human (don't even want to know how) in the mid to late 70s. A French man and WOMAN were the first fatalities of what is now known as HIV disease or AIDS...way before it started popping up in the US.

The infighting for credit between the AMA and the French Medical association are what helped this disease to flourish..that and the ignorance of the gov't and media threw gasoline on a very hot fire. (Read And the Band Played On by Randy Shilts if you want to know about the AIDS epidemic.)

actually mik you have it backwards. a vaccine is not created by a dead virus. your immune system would have no need to fight a dead virus. it may be pretty much dead, severely weakened but its still alive big boy.

The most common form of HIV is derived form the chimpanzee variant of SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) and was likely the result of direct contact with infected blood (eg. bushmeat). Current estimates are that HIV first arose before 1930 in Congo, but was unrecognized until people started getting rare cancers and pneumonias in the US (that in itself says a lot about the state of global health care). Interestingly chimps and other primates have a factor that keeps SIV in check so it isn't really a problem for them (we don't have that factor, unfortunately).

Polio isn't related to HIV. It is actually related to rhino viruses (colds), hepatitis A, and enteroviruses (cause hand-foot-and mouth disease and aseptic meningitis). It lives and grows in the throat and intestinal tract. From there it spreads to the brain and spinal cord and kills neurons thus--paralysis and death. The polio epidemic was present long before the vaccine though there have been cases recorded throughout history and the vaccine was only available to the public in 1955. You may remember from middle school that Franklin Roosevelt caught polio in 1921 which left him paralyzed from the waist down.

You have got to be kidding! What research are you doing? Polio came after the vaccine? Aids was caused by Polio. My goodness I am glad you don't make my major medical decisions. You ignorance alone is scary. You are going to out of the space web pages that will miss quote and misrepresent factual research and enjoy creating conspiracy at every click.

Please read major medical journals from the time periods and STOP relying on web sites for your information. Try looking for true studies with balanced statistics. 10 people within a study does not represent a true demographic of this country.

Uh...wow, how'd that happen genius when the polio vaccine wasn't developed until the 1940s???? I mean, come on - read your frickin history books, sweetheart. Franklin Delano Roosevelt had POLIO and polio epidemics had been happening for quite some time - LONG before an effective vaccine existed. You are truly ignorant, Roxy.

Um...last I checked - science had linked HIV/AIDS virus coming from Africa and it species-jumped from (I think) green monkeys to humans due to consumption of the brains of these monkeys. But since you discovered the REAL reason, Texas Mom, please do tell what your cure for it is now. Maybe some holistic crystals or maybe the aliens can save us...Jes*s.

Rolling my eyes at the both of you because you quite possibly have to be the DUMBEST human beings on earth. And, OH DEAR GOD, they bred too!!!!!!

Actually it may have "species jumped" in the form of the Polio vaccine....the vaccines given in the Congo were made from Chimpanzee Kidneys....

watch "Origin of AIDS" or read "The River"

the AIDS outbreak in the Congo appeared a few years after the mass vaccination using this form of the Polio vaccine.....

Do your research, please.

Oh PLEASE!! don't be such a sheep. Try doing some research for yourself, and some reading of more than one page BEFORE making a judgement.

You people who blame the big bad pharmaceutical companies are pathetic! If it wasn't for the big bad pharmaceutical companies, you and your families life expectancies would be that of 100 years ago - like 50!!

Make sure when you or a loved one gets one of the myriad of devastating diseases, you turn down any form of pharmaceutical - wouldn't want you taking any chances! Just die quick so we don't have to pay for you.

And yes dip-sh*t, the pharmaceutical industry does drive a big portion of the health care system - because they save people's lives!!

Pharmaceuticals have played a role, but to a much lesser degree than access to a healthy diet, life saving procedures like stints and microscopic surgery, plus a healthier and safer lifestyle. Seriously if the majority of the population was still engaged in harvesting crops by hand and wasn't able to get bad teeth pulled then you would very likely still see an average lifespan to about 55.........and the current "average lifespan" is more like 72 for men and 76 for women.

Remember, although NO vaccine is 100% effective in all cases, those vaccinated that still get the illness, get a much less severe form of the disease.
I was around before most of the vaccines available today. Measles nearly took their toll on me. Many do not understand that complications from severe forms of these illnesses can cause pneumonia, paralysis, brain damage, deafness, blindness, respiratory and heart problems and yes, death. I made sure may daughter was vaccinated as I would NEVER want her to go through what I ( and many of my friends) went through with these diseases.

Suite Judy and Hopeful American... Do you people have any idea what 'sheep' do? Looking at the way you use it, you have no freaking clue. Before you go calling people names, you better rethink the 'sheep' comment. YOU are the sheep..following whatever your doctor and his drug provider as well as your insurance company recommend. They do NOT care about you...they only care about your money. Common sense logic would tell you that if you are healthy, they can't and won't make any money off you..it's better for their bottom line if you are sick. SMART, RESPONSIBLE people research what unscrupulous companies who worship only the almighty dollar say is "good" medicine BEFORE the chemicals are running through their veins... or that of their children. My father was diagnosed with high blood pressure. His doctor put him on blood pressure meds which interacted with his cholesterol medicine and triggered diabetes. The diabetes medication drove up both his blood pressure and his cholesterol..which meant they had to up that, which rendered the diabetes meds useless..it was a vicious circle, with my dad getting sicker and sicker and feeling lousy. He and my mom got fed up, started reading, and went to his doctor with several alternatives to the medications..diets, herbs, anything. The doc said, "My way or the highway. My way has full pharmaceutical research and medical knowledge. Yours is all hypothesis." My dad said he was going to try diet and herbs, the doctor 'fired' him as a patient.
My dad followed the diet, exercise, vitamin and herb regiment and has lost 40 pounds. His blood pressure and cholesterol are under control. His weight wasn't an issue in the first place, either..with ANY of his doctors. He ballooned up on those meds the doc had him on. He's now with another doc, who embraces herbal, nutritional therapies to work with medicine..and he's as healthy as any 63 year old man. He runs, he walks, he scuba dives.. and takes ONE pill a day for his blood pressure, versus the six pills a day before.

If my dad were a 'sheep', he would have kept taking the medicines the doctor prescribed. No 'sheep' would have defied their doctors the way my dad did.

From where I stand the term "sheep" can only refer to the massive droves of people that simply accept what their doctor is telling them. Seriously if your doctor told you that the only way to fix your sprained ankle was to cut your leg off at the knee thus preventing all further sprained ankles, wouldn't you question it? Well there are some of us when given the choice of either pumping ourselves full of chemicals or trying the tools that (nature, God, Mother Earth, whatever) gave us to use as a defense in the first place, we decide that those unnatural choices should only be used as a last resort.

Hopeful American..

As wonderful as the chemical revolution has been for our comfort zones, the reality of increasing life expectancy is that it is more due to public sanitation efforts, better food production, less deadly armed conflicts and a very much improved workplace safety than it is from the benefit of drugs.

Drugs are wonderful for those that can't be bothered to take care of their own health - and yes, there are a lot of Americans who've become dependent on them to maintain their lives and comfort oriented lifestyles in the face of chronic diseases. But that's only the picture of American life expectancy being maintained within the last 25 years (and why 25 years ago, we were nearly on top of that list globally, but now we've slipped substantially - Cubans! who live in nearly crushing poverty, on average have life expectancies only 6 months shorter than Americans. What's up with that?).

Going further back, it's a different animal entirely. We don't have men getting killed daily in mining accidents, farmers losing their lives getting mangled by combines, or young women getting cancers from hand painting glowing radium on clock dials. WWI, WWII. Let's not even talk about the mill accidents of times past - I live in coastal New England, want to hear stories of countless fishermen lost at sea? Not to digress, but as much as unions have somewhat slipped into irrelevance in this country in the past 25 years, they've played no small part in creating workplace safety that's done more than most realize to add to our increased life-spans.

The issue a lot of people have, is that we are now at a tipping point, where the product of our medical genius is reaping a by-product of chemical contaminations that few in the scientific community are willing to admit even exists.

I have first hand experience with just such medical shortsightedness, and understand with an astonishing intimacy the consequences of a blithe attitude that says substances - chemicals - drugs or medicines - can't cause irreparable harm.

We are literally, in our drive to overcome evolutionary, bacterial and viral pathogens, poisoning ourselves with man-made substances that our *evolved* human animal bodies cannot process.

We trade the biologically evolved nature-based germs for the artificial man-made chemicals and more and more people's children are suffering for it. We are not plastic beings, made of processed refined substances that have no basis in nature. We put them into our bodies and into our children at our peril.. and in many instances, the children pay for it.

The man-made toxins are starting to add up noticeably. The medical community will not wear it or even admit there's a *possibility* of problems with these vaccinations, because they are good people, who in many cases are terrified to admit they could be on the front end of a problem that undermines their whole philosophy to 'do no harm'.

Would you want to wear something like that?

These children with the health problems from these chemical exposures (that seem to be occurring in ever greater numbers) may be the early warnings to a very bad future outcome.

Some effect is definitely going on within the whole system, but most MD's are too terrified to honestly look.

Something to think about, perhaps?

Deb.

mik1of3:

The world of medicine is not perfect - and you have to be informed. I'm informed and immunizations protect and help the vast majority of people - PERIOD!

You sound like one of the many paranoid who thinks the pharmaceutical companies and doctor's are out to get you and screw you out of a dollar. That is sad. Overall, we enjoy the best medical care in the world.

Like I said before, make sure when you or a loved one gets sick you turn down help from the medical community - wouldn't want you being screwed out of a buck or having you being herded in with the other "sheep".

You are spot on Deb.....thank you for posting.

Hopeful American where did you get informed the U.S. Government? If you were so informed you would realize most of the most recent discovery diseases are because of bad medicine. I don't think the doctors are screwing me out of a buck. I think they are as incompetent as you are and are screwing you out of a few bucks for the medications you are taking.

Like many viruses it is made in chicken embryos (fertilized chicken eggs). This is because viruses require live cells to kill to replicate. I can understand you objection if you are vegan or a member of PETA, but what you posted is very misleading. That is unless you actually believe that it came from human embryos--in which case you have been gravely misinformed.

jd-433184 feel free to go to the CDC's website. just put www in front of and that is the table that is sorted by ingredient. you can find another one that has all of the ingredients sorted by the vaccine. i think you will find embryos and tissue from animals as you mention....you will also clearly find HUMAN tissue and HUMAN serum listed as ingredients in several of the vaccines. so it seems YOU are the one who has been gravely misinformed.

yes well I just went to the CDC website and the Human serum is a protein stabilizer. THAT IS NOT MADE FROM ABORTED FETUSES!!! You people are ridiculous you find ignorance in anything and not worth my time anymore. Just because it says Human does not mean it is made of aborted fetuses. Good gosh! Please tell me you are not passing on this stupidity to your children because if you are then I understand why we as a country are the laughing stock of the world!! This is embarrassing!!

Oh and by the way. Do you know the amount of these products that are actually in the vaccines? No, probably not. Oh wait you will probably go to some Right to Life we site (like the one you got you other information from) to get the answer. You really are not smart.

Oh and here is the definition of Albumin, Human Serum that you say is from aborted fetus.
it is from Wikipedia..

"Human serum albumin is the most abundant protein in human blood plasma. It is produced in the liver. Albumin comprises about half of the blood serum protein. It is soluble and monomeric.

The gene for albumin is located on chromosome 4 and mutations in this gene can result in various anomalous proteins. The human albumin gene is 16,961 nucleotides long from the putative 'cap' site to the first poly(A) addition site. It is split into 15 exons which are symmetrically placed within the 3 domains that are thought to have arisen by triplication of a single primordial domain.

Albumin is synthesized in the liver as preproalbumin which has an N-terminal peptide that is removed before the nascent protein is released from the rough endoplasmic reticulum. The product, proalbumin, is in turn cleaved in the Golgi vesicles to produce the secreted albumin."

Try not to hurt yourself while reading this. It is not from a Right to Life site therefore, NOT bias and UNTRUE.

The Children of God for Life is a "cult" and you're reading their website? Dear God, "there's just no fixing stupid".

There haven't been ANY form of mercury in stabilizers for pediatric vaccines in 7 years. Educate yourself. THERE IS NO MERCURY IN VACCINES 7 YEARS. Autism may be triggered by something, but is it viral, bacterial, environmental or what most scientist are leaning toward, genetic? But several studies have been done by the CDC and private companies (not Pharmaceutical). There have been no clinical ties between mercury to Autism. As for the "downward trend" that started in 2004 through 2006 have now started to rise again and there is NO MERCURY in the vaccines. Hmm, something to think about.

Get your facts straight.

Mercury was in numerous vaccines in this country through 2004, as years of stockpiled supply was consumed. Mercury is STILL in vaccines being administered in other countries.
Mercury BEGAN to be phased out of SOME vaccines in 2001, and is still in some vaccines including SOME influenza vaccines.

US Licensed Vaccines with and without Thimerosal
as of January 2004

Get your facts from an accredited source. and if you read this through, the article was written by a watchdog group and was written in 2004. THAT was four years ago.

But keep crunching your granola and believing that aliens are real and Jesus lives in your freezer. Oh and I've got a bridge to sell you too. I mean really!

AND I was talking about pediatric vaccines.

Oh and a Danish study done in 2001 (they removed Thimerisol in 1998) showed NO slow down in their Autism rates. But that isn't on your watchdog website by some obscure group. And a similar study is currently be conducted in this country.

If my child contracts a disease from an unvaccinated child I will sue until they are on the streets. And I had a friend who did not vaccinate her children, when I found out I refused to allow my children to play together anymore. I am in one of those pockets where your kids create untold dangers because of you.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

As far as sueing goes a Republican Congressman from Texas "snuck" a little clause into the patriot act making it illegal to sue a phamaceutical company for damages caused by vaccines....so if they are indeed safe, why?

Just another Bushwacked individual I guess....keep drinking the kool-aid...it's yummy....

If your precious vaccines were as effective as they claim to be, then why would it put you at risk if I weren't immunized? What is the purpose of immunizations, anyway?

The purpose of vaccinations? Really?
Umm...how many deaf children do you know? Measles vaccine.
THat's just one example.

homestar are you serious? really?? where did you get that one. So all the deaf children in the world is because they had a measles vaccine?

From the CDC (oh that is unless you think they have a conspiracy against the public the don't read further):
"Immunizing individual children also helps to protect the health of our community. People who are sick will be less likely to be exposed to disease germs that can be passed around by unvaccinated children. Immunization also slows down or stops disease outbreaks."

What alot of you are not looking at is how sick these kids really got. Did the ones that were vaccinated recover quicker? The children that get sic from diseases that they are vaccinated from are called breakthrough cases. They are caused by being exposed to the disease. the vaccines are meant to prevent or reduce outbreaks. there was a time when large populations got sick and MANY died from measles, mumps and other "childhood" diseases. Now the death rates are so rare. That is proof that they work to "control" outbreaks by keeping the vast majority well and immune.

in the cases of current outbreaks, the majority of them are in LARGE pockets of un vaccinated areas. Even when you are vaccinated you are not automatically immune, you just have some added protection to help fight the disease. You receive antibodies from vaccines that if exposed automatically start to work on fighting the disease. Therefore, vaccinated people who get sick recover quicker and don't always get as sick. This does not take into account an already compromised immune system. Maybe half the vaccinated children that got sick in the article study were sick before, or had poor diet etc. But did they get better faster? the article didn't say. My bet is that they did.

That is the purpose of vaccines. To gather enough immunity to prevent breakouts of deadly diseases.

You need to calm down!

Was that one child, who was sick, vaccinated before he/she got sick? And, as you said, you were vaccinated against it, but got the disease anyway. Have you any idea how the "immunity" wore off, or how long it takes for the immunity to wear off?

I was told that it can wear off by as early as junior high age in about 20 percent of the population. When I was a kid they didn't continue to booster you later on. They now even have an adult booster for pertussis, but most offices don't carry it. I assume that the child was vaccinated, but the info was not something I was privy to. I became sicker than she did plain and simple. The thing to remember is that VACCINATION DOES NOT EQUATE TO IMMUNITY IN ALL PATIENTS. I personally will never know if perhaps I was never actually immune to the illness in the first place. It was horrible though, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone's child. I lived in a fairly rural farm community out in CA when I got sick. There were many migrant farm workers in the area that could have introduced it to the community. Many people also traveled far an wide throughout the world in our community. All it takes is one person to bring it in for the rest of us who aren't immune to get it.

I'm glad you recovered.

I know that there are many diseases which, if caught by children is more of an inconvenience than a major risk..but if an adult gets it, it is a more serious matter. I didn't catch chicken pox until I was sixteen..and came very close to being hospitalized because of the risk to older patients. I understand that if an adult catches it, it is worse. Hepatitus A as well.. I contracted that when I was on Christmas break in 4th grade ( from playing in flood water) and while I was yellow and out of school for two weeks, and every adult in my family had to get this horrible shot (gammaglobin, I think, it was a long time ago, I'm 43 now) that really hurt. But if they had contracted Hep-A..it was a sure hospital stay, maybe death. And when my sister in law had her tonsils out at age 28...it was a major deal too..and for a child, it's a walk in the park.

I'd still like to know if the child which infected you was vaccinated. Do you know? If they were, that opens up a whole new can of worms, doesn't it?

Don't feel unlucky. Pertussis and some other immunities wear off without a booster shot. There are lots of adults who were previoulsy immunized that are susceptible to lots of things. Given your close contact with children who often carry these diseases you should get the recommended boosters if you haven't already.

Please! Ignorance again. LOOK AGAIN at the CDC ingredient list. THERE is NO aborted fetal cells. Albumin is for plasma and could be taken from the liver. It is a human protein stabilizer. Antifreeze? Come on. What if I told you there was also, play dough or vomit, or boogers. I bet I could find you some obscure website that could agree with that. Come on stop being sheep of ignorance!!!!!!

I partly agree with you. I do believe that non-vaccinated children should be denied admission to public schools. And in private schools any child that is not fully vaccinated should be identified by the administration and notices sent home to all parents indicating that there is on campus x #'s of children unvaccinated against x diseases. It's the only way to help parents be even more vigilant.

You make me laugh. If your child is vaccinated then why should my non vaccinated child not be entered into school. who are you worried about. Is my non vaccinated child going to get your vaccinated child sick. Think! I know it is not my child you are worried about. You would take away an education to protect who?

And what if my child has a VALID medical condition making it impossible to receive a vaccine? Then you are risking their health for your UNPROVEN beliefs. What about children to young to be vaccinated? I am a strict believer that ANY unvaccinated child should be kept out of public school. If you are so smart, smarter than doctors even, home-school your child. Or are you only smart enough to endanger others?

You might want to remember that the majority of private schools are Christian / religious ones, and a great deal of them have families that refuse the vaccinations on religious grounds. Funny, though, isn't it, that the majority of kids who are getting sick are in public schools, isn't it? Considering the less vaccinated are in private schools, you'd think that most of the reintroduced diseases would be laid at their feet, wouldn't you? Logic would dictate that, wouldn't it?

You want to blame any social class for reintroducing long dormant and almost eradicated diseases back into our American society? Look no further than the illegal aliens.

I am an alternative doctor and niether of my 2 kids will ever be vaccinated. I have done plenty of research to base my decision on. There is a great article right now on Dr. Mercola's website right now about how they have been using the soldiers as guinea pigs on many new vaccines and lord know's what else. Have you ever thought that maybe having clean drinking water and sanitation is the reason we don't have alot of the disease outbreaks anymore.

Wait a sec.........from the comments here it would seem that every unvaccinated child is simply a walking petrie dish. The truth is, in most of the cases that have been stated a vaccinated child or adult carrier was the one that set off the outbreak. In that light wasn't it the poor unvacinated child that was the victim of the careless practices of the infected person?

MIK1of3:

My Christian School did not allow anyone missing vaccines to enroll. Period. What religion are you referring to? Because DH Catholic Church's School is very adamant about vaccination. I inquired about enrolling my son at a few schools in Uptown Houston. All REQUIRE (no exceptions) vaccinations. WHERE in Houston are you?

Texas Mom you are under the impression that vaccinate means immune. It does not mean immune, It means that if exposed to these, DEADLY ( I think you forget that part) Crippling (you forget that too) diseases you already have the antibodies to fight the illness. It is not a guarantee against the disease if exposed. But your children if exposed have a higher risk of infection than mine. Oh and mine would probable get better faster.

So let me say it again, vaccinated does not mean immune!

josh nix
Oh my gosh are you scary but you do have a point that there are less outbreaks because of better sanitation but these diseases are not caught from tainted drinking water! They are spread just like the common cold, through contact. But don't call your self a DR unless you went to medical school, not read Dr. Mercola latest books. Geeze. Oh and keep you kids away from mine. enjoy your granola.

Willomyna - see above to Texas Mom. Vaccinated does not mean immune. the more people in a group that make it harder to catch a disease the harder time it has to spread. When a pocket of unvaccinated get into this group the more ramped the spread can be.

No if you take a population of 100 people and 100% are vaccinated then exposure would be limited to practically nothing (statistically 1-3%) . Take 10% of that group unvaccinated and the statistics grow to !5-20% Also look at the population in the article where 15% of the local population was unvaccianted and HALF of the people who were sick were unvaccinated then that is a LARGE travel of the disease through the unvaccinated population.

Everybody keeps saying that it was really just as many vaccinated as not. But that is not true. So let say there is a population of 1000. 15% are not Vaccinated (NV) that's 150 people NV. there are then 850 people vaccinated (V) So if measles struck 100 people in this population and half were V and the other half NV. That would mean that 17% of the V population got sick and 33% of the NV population got sick. That statistically means that your unvaccinated child has twice the chance of getting sick from a deadly disease than mine. TWICE the chance to get polio, measles, mumps, whopping cough. And don't go to the area of " they are childhood diseases". They have been known to kill people in record numbers. But you go ahead and take that risk, pay those medical bills and don't come crying to me when something bad happens.

Yes, but how many were immunized and DIDN'T get it? Sounds pretty basic to me.

What's your point Homestar? It doesn't change the fact that immunization is not 100% effective but why should that percentage of children who are genetically predisposed against the effectiveness of the vaccine be exposed to disease because some parents are believing in conspiracies and non-science?

Or the fact that not everyone exposed to these diseases will contract them, or that every one that contracts them will die or even get severly sick. What is wrong with parents making individual choices for individual children?

Thank you DR. Natalie. There is a reporting agency that has records of all the "reported" vaccine related adverse reactions. How many times can we take Sudden Infant Death Syndrom and put it to a recent vaccine instead?

DrNatalie - EXACTLY - my kids were toddlers just before the chicken pox vaccine became available. They both had chicken pox. It wasn't fun they they're FINE and now they have their natural immunities.

I survived measles, mumps, chicken pox, rubella.....

I'd rather nurse my kids through something like that and feel safe knowing they have their natural immunities than RISK brain damage.

My daughter was vaccinated, but I stopped my son's after his first round.

I home school (not for religious reasons, but government reasons) so I don't have to deal with someone standing over my children with a hypodermic needled demanding that my children be pumped fill of lord-knows-what.

Perhaps someone should mention the discipline of hypnosis. In this discipline, you become aware of how brainwashing takes place and how the power of supposed "authorities/experts" exert tremendous influence on the suggestibility of the masses. "Mob" mentality is a form of hypnosis, as well, for the actions an individual would never dream of doing by him/herself, would easily be done while in a crowd. This article speaks to "herd immunity" but it is also using "herd mentality/pressure" in an attempt to promote fear and cynicism to as many people as MSNBC can carry it to.

Parents who "educate" themselves know that there are risks on BOTH ends of the issue. my son (2) has several health issues, including severe asthma and allergies. I know that he could get very sick and possibly even die if he were to get a serious disease, on the other hand he may have a reaction to the shots too, and brain damage! death the day after a round of shots!! Forget hearding,how about if we take a look at our OWN children and make the decisions biased on them!! I am a stay at home mom, I also plan on home schooling my boys, so they are not in large groups of children on a daily basis. I am more than willing to look into vaccination for my sons when they are older and healthier, and don't forget to talk to your doctor. If you have a good one (a Dr. who rushes through appointments with out giving facts and information is not a good one)they will be willing to talk to you about Both the pros and the cons, and help you muddle through the types of vaccines and the alternatives, after all what are they getting paid for? But until then stop reaming on me because I'm trying to do what is best for my boys. You should be doing the same, the best for the circumstances you have.

Exactly. Every parent has to make the best decisions that they can for their children. This means NOT taking everything at face value and doing your homework and research so that you can try and make the best, most informed decision that you possibly can for your child.

Many medical professionals believe that the vaccines are safe. Many medical professionals and scientists DO NOT believe that they are safe the way that they are currently constructed. Do you really want to take that risk with your child?

I have personally experienced many bad doctors and have learned a long time ago that you should never take one person's (doctor's) answer and just go "Gee, ok". Do your own research. Become informed. Ask questions. Question the system itself!!! Pharmaceutical companies are in business to make money. Period. They have made some great advances in years past, yes, but that does not mean that you should just wholeheartedly believe EVERYTHING that they tell you.

I personally wouldn't put my children at risk so that some corporate schmuck can get another BMW. IF you do the research and believe that the vaccines are safe, then by all means, go vaccinate your child. But please don't do it on just your doctor's say-so. Actually do the research to make the decision as informed as you can possibly be. If you still decide that it's safe.... then that is your decision and I wholeheartedly support it. So do me a favor and support my decision to make my own informed (as best as I can be) decision to do what I believe is best and most safe for my child!!!

Well said, ypman.

If these vaccines aren't 100% effective, then why on earth are we still getting them? Isn't that kind of like selling an Eskimo an air conditioner?

birth control isn't 100% effective either, but I bet you still use that.

Sue.... I am actually on the other side of the debate from you, but that was not only a good point...... it was funny as all h#ll !!! I, however, do not debate whether or not the vaccines are effective when used correctly... I am debating on whether or not they are safe, both in the materials used in the vaccines and the timetable that the government and doctors want to give them in.... So, at least for me, though your point is very valid.... it doesn't change my mind. I hope that this recent spark of outbreaks will have something good come out of it. I don't wish any child to get seriously ill or possibly die due to these diseases, but maybe the pressure of so many parents NOT immunizing their children at all will get the government to re-evaluate the current ingredients causing so much debate and the schedules that so many of us object to.

Mik the reason these vaccines are not 100% effective is because a percentage of children are genetically immune to the vaccine and can still contract the disease they've been vaccinated against. That's what herd immunity does to protect these members of our society because if the rest of the herd are immunized, it greatly reduces the chances that those that can't be protected will be exposed.

Sue - the fact of the matter is it hasn't take these recent debates for science to truly evaluate the claims of vaccines being neurologically unsafe. They've been tested for years and we still have not a shred of evidence that there's a tie in. What you're seeing now is the culmination of years of spreading fear and misinformation by the likes of Jim Carey and Jenny McCarthy to where scientist and doctors are becoming concerned that ignorance is going to win the day and we will see an ever growing spike in diseases that were once close to eradication.

Good for you. My children are never sick also.

Sorry Patrick but the sanitation vs vaccines argument has long been debunked.

#Diseaseshadalready

Have you noticed that there are fewer deaf children? Measles vaccine.
There are fewer male children who will be sterile as adults. Mumps vaccine.
There are people who get the chicken pox several times, having the disease is no guarrantee against having it again. Sure...measles might not kill my kid...but it could leave them deaf. I'm not willing to take that chance. You need to educate yourself about the potential harm of the disease, and percentages involved there, instead of simply educating yourself about the rediculously small percentage of children who have an adverse reaction to vaccinations.
Who told you this stuff? Yes, there are always illnesses to worry about. But, the side effects to disease come at a much higher percentage that the EXTREMELY rare complications of vaccines.
My daughter is autistic...it was not caused by a vaccine. She was slightly odd from birth, and we realized it because we knew it ran in my husband's family. I think a lot of people don't recognize early signs of autism and want something to blame. There are things that will exacerbate autism...any trauma or change. Shots are traumatic.
Potty training made my daughter regress a ton...but it didn't cause her autism either, and I wouldn't blame potty training for her regression. This isn't about money...and I'm glad you vaccinated before you got all stupid.

the whole it wast a vaccine may not be right One of my best friends is deaf due to a vaccine her monther got.

A 17 year old's system is a lot stronger than a newborns, Raul. Your body was pretty much developed and had finished growing. A newborns is just getting started. As a result, your mostly adult body had an easier time with the chemicals than a newborns would.

As far as immunity goes the 17 year old system has responded to more diseases (thus they get sick less often), but the newborn has a greater ability to respond to new infections (the thymus degenerates with age).

How can you prove you are protecting your children by vaccinating them? You cant. Research proves you may be doing more harm and for nothing. At least we are allowing the body to have some say.

Research proves? Really? How can you make such a stupid statement and be taken seriously. Research can prove anything you want it to. Anything. Take a statistics class. If you rely on erroneous research because you want to believe something, fine. But don't try to use "research" as an excuse.
My children will get vaccinated. Thanks.

You will never be able to change the minds of the parents that refuse to immunize over small risks - But I agree that any kid that is seen to cause an epidemic of any disease that has a vaccine should be made to pay the bill.

The pros of getting immunized FAR outweigh the risks. And for the people that say "why would you get your child immunized if it isn't 100% effective? Isn't that why you do it?" my answer would be - do you wear a seat belt when you drive? Why? You could be in an accident and the seat belt could crush all of your internal organs and kill you, so why would you still wear the seat belt? The reason is that the seat belt gives you SOME protection in an accident, enough possibly to keep you from being seriously injured. Yes, there may be a small risk that the seat belt crushes all your internal organs (if you don't think this is true, read about model Niki Taylor), but that small risk outweighs the risk of being seriously injured. I would take the small risk of something happening immunizing my children (which still has no scientific correlation, but that's for another post) than exposing them to diseases that were pretty much wiped out since my mother was little (and are now making a comeback because of selfish parents that refuse to immunize.

Just my $.02

Get real! The pharmaceutical industry has an EXTREMELY powerful lobby in Washington. Millions and perhaps billions are made every year from vaccinations. Every year more and more vaccinations are added to those "recommended" as necessary. Why?? And now why is asthma and autism SKYROCKETING???We are also seeing more and more autoimmune diseases.
My daughter and son in law chose not to vaccinate my gran-daughter and I was glad they made that decision.My gran-daughter has a very healthy immune system because she was breast fed and received immunities from her mother. She is now seven years old and has had NO childhood illnesses even though she has been exposed many times to many different diseases.My daughter and her husband do not feed their child fast food and she is limited to her sugar intake.EAT HEALTHY BE HEALTHY!

I had all my childhood vaccinations and I have had poor health all my life.One childhood illness after another.I thought that the vaccinations were supposed to prevent getting sick.......hmmm.....I now have lupus.

Texas Mom,

How many occurrences of epidemics per decade do we experience post-vaccination era versus pre-vaccination era? Also, there are risks associated with everything! If you allow your child to play outside, lighting could strike them, a stranger could kidnap them, or a poisonous something could bite or sting them. Do you put your child in a bubble to reduce risks? Do you slather SPF 50 on your kid 24-7? Because I know all about that Texas sun. Skin cancer ya know. I think some of you people need jobs. Too much time to create panic for yourselves. Victimizing yourselves and your children isn't cute or trendy. It's annoying.

You feel those not vaccinating their child should be charged with neglect. I feel that if you do vaccinate you should be charged with child abuse. Let's agree to disagree. No one is victimizing here...just sharing opionions. After all, we're still a free country. Albeit, probably, not for long. I prefer not to live in a socialistic world. I'm the parent, I will make the decisions that I feel are best for my children; as I'm sure you do yours.

oh how i love when you people refute people for not being as "educated" as they claim when you yourself is the one who is in fact uneducated. yes they are VIRUSES and they are still partially live and severely weakened. your immune system creates antibodies to fight off the live virus just like your body creates antibodies to fight off the live virus when you are SICK. if her child made it through measles ok she would in fact be healthier than your daughter because she would still have the immunity but none of the toxic chemicals that were hammered into your daughters still developing baby body.